New Galicia Designs Podcast feat. Kathyrn Holeton

I recently had the pleasure of being on the New Galicia Designs Podcast where Daniel and I discussed branding for musicians and its importance, and some D&D and roleplaying. You can check out the podcast by clicking the link below.

Spotify link

For all my friends who hate listening to podcasts, the transcript is below! :)

Daniel (00:05)

Alright, welcome to the New Galicia Pod. We've got Kathryn Holeton here. She is a brand designer for creatives and Kathryn wants you to tell us a little bit about what you do.

Kathryn Holeton (00:17)

And so, I do brand design for musicians, but I call it character design because what's a little designing if there's no game in it? Gotta play some games to have a little bit of fun, but the good games, not the mind games, that's- that's- those aren't fun.

Daniel (00:27)

Of course. Alright, I guess this list is a fun mine- maybe like a puzzle game or something. I like Tetris. Dr. Mario is cool.

Kathryn Holeton (00:42)

Yeah, I grew up with Tetris. I grew up with Tetris and phone games. I actually do not have video games at home.

Daniel (00:52)

I haven't played in like a year, but I did grow up really liking them. I just don't really have that much time, so every once in a while I get to play a little bit.

Kathryn Holeton (01:02)

I play a lot of D &D, which is actually where my business is loosely inspired. My branding archetypes are loosely based off of the character roles you can play in D &D.

Daniel (01:16)

That's really interesting. mean, I play a little bit, but I mean, can explain that. into detail. I want to hear that. What do you mean?

Kathryn Holeton (01:22)

Yeah, sure. ⁓

So when it comes to the process of brand design, you have a general pre-formatted layout on how the process is supposed to go. whenever you're onboarding a client, you start first with ⁓

Of course, discussing payment terms, you send a contract, but then you get into the actual branding or the beginning of it where you basically sent a personality test to your client or clients, depending on if it's a group or a single person. And this personality test is mainly to identify their unique selling points, their message, their mission, ⁓ their goals, their dreams, everything about them. And then

Also as part of this ⁓ personality test, you take a character archetype, for me anyway, a character archetype test. It's more like you find out your zodiac or your horoscope, but for me, you figure out what character and subclass you have with it. I'm still working on the terminology so that I don't get in copyright trouble or whatever.

Daniel (02:31)

Yeah, of course, because... And they're pretty... Yeah, especially when they've bought by a bigger company lately. They're pretty... ⁓

Kathryn Holeton (02:36)

Yeah, I don't want to fight with Wizards of the Coast. I like their product a lot. Yeah. ⁓ But there's 13 character roles to pick from. I used to have them memorized. Let's see if I got it. ⁓ There's the artificer bard barbarian, ⁓ cleric,

Daniel (02:40)

No, no, no. They got a lot of money too.

Kathryn Holeton (03:05)

fighter you know what let's just pull up the vlog

Daniel (03:09)

Yeah, I remember the fighter. I saw a little bit when I was going through your Instagram. Saw a couple of that were being explained, but those are the ones I saw was the bard, artificer, cleric, druid, another one that I don't think was mentioned. Yeah. Trying to get like a wizard, sorcerer, mage.

Kathryn Holeton (03:22)

Yep, I knew I missed one. I knew I missed one. ⁓

Daniel (03:39)

monk. That's really interesting for musicians. So do you attract a lot of heavy metal, I guess, people with that? Because I feel like those two always go hand hand.

Kathryn Holeton (03:54)

Alright, yes.

That is the dream to work primarily with those in the rock, pop, KJC pop, ⁓ metal. That's currently the music vibes I'm into right now, but I'm really open to working with pretty much any musician right now. It's all the same process all across the board.

Daniel (04:09)

⁓ yeah. Uh-huh. I know of course I just know that like because I used to ⁓ interview a lot of like hip-hop artists well I mean three I had three episodes when I live in Detroit ⁓ we did it was called donut magic it was actually the same time that like the ⁓ auto ⁓ culture channel donut media came out so I think maybe that's why I got lost in the algorithm we didn't do very well plus we only had three episodes and never did anything else after that but

Hip-hop artists are always really hungry and like they're like always put themselves out there. So that's what I always like the grand to even like we're going to have some ⁓ on this show. I know I am the fat boy is going to be on here recording on September 12th, probably releasing sometime in October. But ⁓ he's a fever. Good. Reach right out to my post. But it is a

But the reason being is I always see medieval and warrior stuff, like archetypes in heavy metal type music, so that's why I brought that up.

Kathryn Holeton (05:36)

I get that. It also comes down to where exactly they're located in the world because Scandinavian metal is a thing and it's nuts.

Daniel (05:44)

Yeah, yeah, I mean ⁓

I've looking at lot of like Polish and Eastern European stuff. They love like heavy metal and like ⁓ Gothic obviously that's where the Gothic architecture comes from. Gothic stuff comes from England, but it's it was was inspired by the Transylvanian Eastern European stuff So it's that like architecture and art style, but it does come from England in the 1800s I think it's where it wasn't where the romanticization of it was... I mean 1700s because you could add Grail and Poe and things like that.

Kathryn Holeton (06:22)

I would argue the gothic architecture would have been around since the medieval times. ⁓

Daniel (06:26)

No, not Gothic. Yeah, not Gothic architecture. I'm talking about the romanticization of that stuff through, ⁓ like, literature.

Kathryn Holeton (06:30)

⁓Frankenstein by Mary Shelley is where exactly where it kicked off

Daniel (06:35)

Yeah. Yeah, which I mean what she what I mean when did she write that that was mid 1800s

Kathryn Holeton (06:43)

Yes, it was right around the Krakatone eruption.

Daniel (06:46)

Oh yeah, yeah, that's, ugh, that's definitely, I mean, I forgot what year that is, but I should know that as a geologist, so sorry to disappoint. But yeah, so go on with your archetypes.

Kathryn Holeton (07:02)

⁓ So through this archetype test, ⁓ I will determine which one is your main archetype and that will set the main tone for how your design will look and how you'll interact with your fans and such. But then you'll also have like a subclass or subgenre, ⁓ subcategory, that's a safe one. ⁓

Daniel (07:29)

Mm-hmm.

Kathryn Holeton (07:29)

that will pseudo-inspire things. So for example, I am a rogue druid. I really love nature. My jewelry is heavily inspired by nature. ⁓ I have a flower there. I have a scorpion signet, a snake ring on. I got a leafy ring on. But my colors are also inspired by nature. So on my website I have

Daniel (07:35)

Okay, I was gonna ask eventually what yours was. Okay. Whoa.

Kathryn Holeton (08:00)

a lot of really cool toned greens like a dark green and then like a adventuring green and blues and like a garnet red because I like crystal stuff specifically because I collect crystals and I like pretty colors but I also have like start contrasting stuff like black ⁓ heavy black and white to play into the rogue elements and I also

Daniel (08:17)

Yeah.

Kathryn Holeton (08:29)

⁓ I'm always looking for a chance to sneak in any kind of marketing for my business as much as possible. And I always sneak in a little gift to my clients every time I work with them. And it's always a surprise. No one knows what they're getting.

Daniel (08:45)

⁓ that's good.

Kathryn Holeton (08:49)

So I'm sneaky, steely and nature-y. ⁓

Daniel (08:49)

Yeah. That's really awesome. mean, ⁓ my... I just started playing D &D at like a few years ago. I played World of Warcraft when I was like younger. And I guess never really realized that... what inspired it. And when I started playing D &D, it was just kind of blown away. like, wow, they really just kind of took everything and made it into a video game. Like this whole game is like D &D.

Kathryn Holeton (09:25)

Okay. ⁓

Daniel (09:26)

But I used to always just want to be like a just smash-em-up like barbarian warrior type of person like I'm always I Mean like even with my like art styles. I'm like really like it's impressionistic I make like stuff that usually like looks like I have detail, but it's a lot of like mean it's impressionistic these fat brush strokes I use a lot of them and like it's I'm a neanderthal like it's

Kathryn Holeton (09:53)

You

Daniel (09:55)

So, but I lately it's, what am I right now? I'm a human bard in my current campaign. It's, so.

Kathryn Holeton (10:02)

Nice. In my current campaign I'm playing in, I am a rogue drow that likes to pretend I'm a vampire just to freak people out.

Daniel (10:13)

Hell, nice. I we have some weird, uh... weird... the family dynamics where the same dad, bunch of different moms sort of things going on there, and like, people are like, guess halflings, half elves. A lot of weird things going on there, but... I forgot what campaign we're playing.

Daniel (10:39)

I actually started playing D &D as a DM because we couldn't find any way to do it. So it was a weird way to jump into it. And I just went out and bought a couple books. I bought Storm King's Thunder is where I started.

Kathryn Holeton (10:51)

Nice, I'm currently playing ⁓ the one before Descent into Avernus. ⁓ Baldur's Gate

Daniel (10:59)

yeah.

Kathryn Holeton (11:00)

That's where we're currently at anyway.

Daniel (11:03)

Yeah, it's been really fun. The hardest part of it is scheduling people, guess. Everybody getting on the same schedule, getting together in a room. With Storm King's Thunder, we didn't actually even finish it. We played for two years. And then it never really got to the end. But it's still lot of fun. And it's just a good excuse to get together.

So I don't, I mean what other points you wanted to tell me about ⁓ what you do? mean, so you are creative. What made you want to get into ⁓ sort of, I guess brand design and like what else do you do with this?

Kathryn Holeton (11:51)

So how I got into brand design for musicians actually started when I was a working as a musician myself. mainly worked on production songwriting and lyrics and I found when I was collaborating with others who could do the vocals and do like the actual ⁓ playing of the instruments and stuff like that I was helping them build out their brands at the same time and I did it so much I was like you know I can possibly help a lot more people with this if I turn this into a business. So I transitioned from doing ⁓ music for right now and I'm focusing more on brand design, but I'm always open to CoLab.

Daniel (12:39)

So, mean, what instruments do you play? What kind of music do I mean, guess people always say everything. That's not an answer. Like, gotta tell me, like, give me, guess, a ranking if you're gonna say everything.

Kathryn Holeton (12:49)

⁓ I won't say everything. ⁓ I'll give a huge breakdown of everything I'm into. I like hybrid genres, but the two genres I cannot stand by themselves are rap and hip hop. I don't like them individually. However, if you pair ⁓ rap with rock, I love me some Linkin Park, some I Prevail, some... I like it. I like that. I even like me some Falling in Reverse on occasion.

Daniel (12:55)

Hehehe Mm-hmm. Hehehe Yeah. hehe

Kathryn Holeton (13:24)

So, I'm not opposed to hybrid genres. ⁓

Daniel (13:27)

Well, it's funny because like I've that ⁓ when like listening to something that somebody else is passionate about because like you may not like that something but get somebody who is really passionate about something and have them show you what they think is the best and usually that's how you gain an appreciation for it. You still might not like that thing but that's how you get to at least bridge a gap.

But it was just a little bit, but yeah, can see it because I was never really a hip hop fan, but it was when I moved back to Detroit. I was born there and grew up there. Like when I was about 10 or 11, moved up into the woods in northern Michigan. Then moved back when I was 21. And so that's how I kind of got exposed to it. Started like meeting a lot of like, one guy, his cousin ran a recording studio on like 7 Mile and Telegraph.

So then that's how I met a lot of people and a lot of them weren't the best there were some people that were really good some people that were not really good and and So I just gained a bit a much bigger appreciation then but no, I mean I grew up with the same opinion as you ⁓ and I don't listen to it now, but ⁓ Because I mostly just listen to punk rock and like a skate punk kind of guy, but ⁓ Yeah, that's I definitely

Kathryn Holeton (14:22)

Nice.

Daniel (14:51)

And I'm not a person that usually you can give new music to and I will listen to it in the same year. It usually takes me a long time before I get around to doing it because I'm just a little averse to doing that. ⁓

Kathryn Holeton (15:02)

I mean if you like the pops and you're looking for a different flavor look at a Korean pop, Japanese pop, and Chinese pop.

Daniel (15:11)

It's definitely been like an interest because I know so many people do like it but but you know

Kathryn Holeton (15:17)

I can give you some artists I'm really hardcore into. There's this one called REOL. I believe they're, I think they're J-pop, but they could be K-pop, but they're really good. They got a lot of really good stuff. ⁓

Daniel (15:21)

Yeah. Okay.

Kathryn Holeton (15:39)

If I can... A really good song to get in... Yeah, a really good song to get into by them is called... If I can pronounce it... Gokakashi? I think is how it's pronounced? G-O-U-K... Let me Google it.

Daniel (15:41)

Yeah, you can pitch stuff right now, yeah.

Like, G-E-Z-G-O, go Kakashi.

Kathryn Holeton (16:08)

Aha! Here we go. Yeah, I did not say it right, by the way. It is G-O-K-U-S-I-A-R-S-A-I-S-H-I-K-I. So, Goku Zaishiki.

Daniel (16:25)

Okay.

Kathryn Holeton (16:27)

That one's a really good one to get in on them. ⁓ Another one is Stop Now or Give Me a Break. That one is really, really good. in that one, if you look at the translated lyrics, she is hardcore bashing social media and social media society. It is great.

Daniel (16:36)

Okay. Love that. And so it's, ugh, we get into that too.

Kathryn Holeton (16:57)

Another one is Jasmine Soko. She is Japanese or Chinese. And she has a lot of really good stuff.

Daniel (17:10)

Okay.

Kathryn Holeton (17:11)

⁓ Lexi Lu. She is a C-pop, but she also does English and she does Spanish. So she mixes all three languages into her music.

Daniel (17:23)

Cool.

Kathryn Holeton (17:27)

⁓ Baby metal

Daniel (17:29)

Definitely have heard of Baby Metal. I haven't heard them, but I know I've heard of them.

Kathryn Holeton (17:31)

⁓ they're good. They just did a really heavy song collab with Spirit Box. It's great. What's the name of it? Let's see if I can find the translated version. Spirit Box Baby Metal.

Daniel (17:53)

It's so funny, the rock that I live under. just, I hear these things like coming across my radar sometimes, but.

Kathryn Holeton (18:00)

It's called My Queen.

Daniel (18:03)

Okay. Alright, I got that down. My Queen by Babymetal.

Kathryn Holeton (18:08)

Yeah, that one's really heavy. It's great. So recommend. Can't recommend enough. I'm hooked on it right now. They did another one that featured Tom Morello. It's called Metali. That one is great. That one's really big here.

Daniel (18:27)

yeah, love Tom Morello. Yeah, I mean I was really big into Raging Against the Machine. I used to be on the Pirate Bay and download Torrents all the time. And so I would download everybody's discography. And I know like, know, pirating music is not good, but I was a teenager, so what are you going to do? And so I literally had everything, like all their live stuff. So I just had my iPod Mini, like the first gen.

I filled up four gigs of that and I had, I think, I Green Day's discography and Sublime's discography, and Split Gain 2 also, and that's what I did.

Kathryn Holeton (19:15)

Nice. I actually have a friend in the Marival Tennessee music industry who is- who has a Green Day cover band that gives the full Green Day experience. Yeah, he's dropping cover songs. He actually did a collab with ⁓ Welcome Eternity, which is a metal band that's local to Knoxville, Tennessee, and they did a cover of Comfortably Numb. It is.

Daniel (19:28)

yeah?

Kathryn Holeton (19:44)

have it's great I listen to it all the time it's really really good ⁓

Daniel (19:44)

Uh-huh. That sounds good.

Yeah, I was just in a band for the last like six months. I got out of it in June. It was just a little cover band to kind of get better at guitar. So I didn't tell them that I could sing at all. And then they needed a singer because we had been missing one for a little while. And so I jumped in and then like because I recall one of the songs is something I request. I request a Geeks Think Breath by Green Day.

Kathryn Holeton (20:13)

Mm-hmm.

Daniel (20:25)

And so I was like, yeah, I'll sing it. I get on the mic and we get done playing and the bassist goes, Dan, you sandbagging motherfucker. He's like, why didn't you tell us that you could sing? I was like, what? It was so awesome. I'll just share the picture sometime.

Kathryn Holeton (20:39)

Hmm

Daniel (20:47)

yeah, I got the link here.

Kathryn Holeton (20:49)

Yeah, highly recommend checking out that song. was actually the video was made live. I'm actually in that particular music video I sent you a link to and anyone who's watching feel free to send a shout out if you want to see the song I'm talking about because I yeah

Daniel (21:05)

I will, I'll share it.

I'll make sure that people listen to it.

Kathryn Holeton (21:09)

⁓ but anyway, I'm in that video because that video was recorded during a festival in Marable at the time and I was out to- out there for that particular day to support.

Daniel (21:21)

Yeah, that looks awesome. Yeah, I love the little steps, I mean I just love like small venues and like the personal feeling and I guess I mean, I mean, tell me a little bit like about the bands and stuff that you work with, like some of the artists that you have worked with, I guess. Because I'm kind of interested.

Kathryn Holeton (21:49)

what particularly would you like to know about them?

Daniel (21:52)

I mean, what kind of group do you attract?

Kathryn Holeton (21:56)

Again, I work with a number of ⁓ artists. Currently, I have worked with a nostalgic rock band, a indie rock band, and a acoustic singer. I'm also talking with a pop artist at the moment, and I'm also talking with a few other people across the music industry.

Daniel (22:23)

That's cool. do they are they a lot of like local people to like the Tennessee and Knoxville area or like is it how far like is your reach?

Kathryn Holeton (22:34)

⁓ So the indie rock band is actually based out of North California. ⁓ Pazzo... I always say Chicago. I hope I'm not wrong. But they're... I believe they're in Chicago. And I'm sorry if you guys see this and you guys aren't in Chicago anymore. Sorry! ⁓ And then another one I worked with.

Daniel (22:54)

Mm-hmm

Kathryn Holeton (23:00)

I believe it's also in Chicago. I'm talking with someone currently in Atlanta and I'm actually working on a or I'm working with another designer to help a music label create a brand as well, which I'm really excited about. I can't share details right now, but excited. ⁓

Daniel (23:07)

it is. Of course, that's fine. Yeah. Now I get that, but that's cool. One thing about Chicago is I always tell people that I found somebody in my family, my second great grandmother, her last name is Skiba. So I always tell people that Matt Skiba's my cousin. Because he's from Chicago and that branch of my family came in through Chicago before moving to Detroit.

Like, I'm like, yeah, dude, Mass Keep is my cousin. So I'm like, we can just play any Alkaline Trio song. Like, I'll get it down the first try. Like, let's just go. But I have no proof of that. It's just something I tell people. It's totally a lie. So don't sue me, Alkaline Trio.

Just using you for clout, that's okay. So, I mean, ⁓ we can get into non-music related stuff or non-artistic stuff. what do you like to do for fun when you're not a brand designer? Also, besides Z &D because you're using that in your brand design.

Kathryn Holeton (24:35)

using it loosely in brand design loosely

Daniel (24:37)

Yeah. Yeah. Loosely in a non-copyright infringing form.

Kathryn Holeton (24:42)

Yes. well, I mean, I'm a jack of all trades and an artist all the way to the end. So when I'm not working on my business, which is very rare, I'm either, ⁓ I actually doodle. have a secret, not so secret art account. post hand-drawn art too, ⁓ and stuff. I actually have a little notebook.

It's just a little pocket notebook, but I do all kinds of doodles in it. I like this art style called Zentangle. Let's see if that shows up.

Daniel (25:20)

Oh, that's cool. mean, it's really interesting for the audio listeners, like it's really intricate. And where can they find it if they wanted to go look and see what you do to your not so secret art account?

Kathryn Holeton (25:30)

⁓ So my doodles are ⁓ on my Instagram account called Black Kitty Cat Artist, one word, all spelled exactly the way it sounds.

Daniel (25:41)

Okay.

Kathryn Holeton (25:46)

I haven't posted a lot of work. I still have like at least 200 pieces I can post. I just don't have the energy because I'm constantly working on my business.

Daniel (25:56)

Right, you kinda just get dragged down in one. Like, my personal page needs love, like...

Kathryn Holeton (26:01)

Yeah. this year, that one's hard to see. This one is one of my favorites I've done. Let me turn off the blur. I'm getting... I know, I'm salty. I can't turn the blur off. No, I'm really salty, that's okay.

Daniel (26:10)

Come on, Blair. It's not working.

Kathryn Holeton (26:21)

I can share while we're on here. Give me a second.

Daniel (26:25)

Yeah, no problem.

Do do do do do

Kathryn Holeton (26:40)

I guess let me go to Instagram instead of Google, because I don't rank on Instagram on that account. Aha! Okay. see here. So ⁓ this is my secret, not so secret art account.

Daniel (27:19)

yeah.

Kathryn Holeton (27:27)

And all of this is drawn by hand except for that one. That one was drawn by someone else for me because they wanted to give me a pretty gift and I love it so much.

Daniel (27:36)

yeah. I love the steampunk crow.

Kathryn Holeton (27:41)

Thank you. My favorite piece of all time that I have on here is actually... Let me see if I can find the... Here we go. I only... nope, that's not it. I edited that video. There we go. I only have a video up at the moment. I should probably put a still of this one on there, but I did this one with colored pencils, marker, metallic pens, regular pens.

Like I broke out all the mixed medias.

Daniel (28:10)

Yeah!

Kathryn Holeton (28:13)

I actually colored the eyes with marker.

Daniel (28:13)

Wow, I love the shading of it. Look at the depth in the ears, like... Yo yeah, the eyes are really soulful. And the earrings are nice too.

Kathryn Holeton (28:36)

Thank you. They were loosely, very very loosely inspired by Demon Slayer. ⁓ Tanjiro's earrings. I liked his, but I wanted a different version of them.

Daniel (28:43)

yeah.

Kathryn Holeton (28:53)

But yeah, all of this is just my hand-drawn doodles I post on occasion. I also really like how this one turned out.

Daniel (29:07)

Yeah, the horns are really cool.

Kathryn Holeton (29:09)

Thank you. I drew that one, I believe, during COVID.

Daniel (29:14)

Make sense to the masks.

Kathryn Holeton (29:16)

You I'm still s- ⁓ thank you. I actually- I drew this right after I first learned how to draw. I'm still really proud of that. Because before this I was drawing like half chibi faces.

Daniel (29:21)

the fish is really nice. The dragon, yeah, that's cool.

Kathryn Holeton (29:38)

They weren't even that great or realistic and this was the first sort of realistic thing I drew. ⁓

Daniel (29:46)

He said, what, cheaty faces?

Kathryn Holeton (29:48)

Chibi, it's a Japanese ⁓ character art style.

Daniel (29:53)

⁓ okay. I was wondering. I like that dog.

Kathryn Holeton (29:58)

Thank you. I also love him.

Daniel (30:01)

Yeah, I can imagine it being pretty popular.

Kathryn Holeton (30:04)

But yeah, this is just my secret, not so secret art account I post to on occasion that I should post to more often. I would like to schedule stuff out, but I don't really want to go through the trouble of making another Facebook.

Daniel (30:21)

Yeah, scheduling things out like in post. don't know. I mean, like we were talking about social media earlier, like with the artists and it's, ⁓ they really want a lot from you when it comes to creating content. They want you to make it a job, but they don't pay you like a job. It's...

Kathryn Holeton (30:40)

If you're doing it on your own, you don't get paid for it. And it's so hard to figure out on your own. Ugh.

Daniel (30:43)

Right, and you know... Yeah, there's, I mean,

there's some platforms that give you a little bit of guidance, but even their guidance is like, well, that's not, it doesn't really seem helpful. That's not how people are blowing up. It seems really like fake and inauthentic. And you know, I'd rather just kind of wing it. There should be some, like they should have an algorithm that kind of rewards people who wing it.

Kathryn Holeton (31:12)

Oh, well, it's called you strike it lucky. And really that's the key part of marketing is you make a strategy and you wing it. If it works, great. If it don't work, oh no. They like to disguise it under the phrase AB testing. And yes, I understand that it's important to do your AB testing and to do all of this and stuff. But for people just starting out, they ain't going to have the time, energy or resources to put into that.

Daniel (31:15)

Yeah, I guess. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, nobody does. Normally it's like, I don't know, maybe they find people and invest in them, like if they think somebody's doing the right thing, like, but maybe is there some sort of angel investor out there sniffing out those kind of people? And if so, who are you? Like, where are you at? But I don't even know how works. I've never been into that kind of stuff.

Kathryn Holeton (31:56)

Or if you have a really good friend who loves social media marketing who is willing to do it for free or for a cut of your earnings or whatever. I mean, that would be, a good deal.

Daniel (32:17)

Yeah, but I don't think I do, so...

Kathryn Holeton (32:22)

Only those who are lucky or were smart enough to network in college have those. I feel like anyway.

Daniel (32:28)

Yeah,

I was in the musty science building. it was... I mean, before that, when I was in the art building, was a community college up north in Michigan. I mean, social media was not like that. was definitely like, I how are these people striking it rich on YouTube? I don't know. I mean, I started going to college in 2010. So that was still really early.

Kathryn Holeton (32:48)

Mm.

Daniel (32:56)

People were doing it, but I don't know. don't think anybody really knew the special sauce.

Kathryn Holeton (33:02)

Now the algorithm algorithms were a little more based on authenticity versus, hey, we're going to only show the biggest creators right now.

Daniel (33:11)

Yeah, and like yeah, there wasn't like a celebrity culture behind Kratus. Like maybe there was, but it wasn't industrialized where now it definitely is. The celebrity culture is industrialized when it comes to the online influence. The term influencer was not thrown around in 2010, 2012 even. It's definitely, I'd say 14, 15 posts that is when influencer is mainstream, people are that. That's when I noticed it at least in my everyday life.

Kathryn Holeton (33:26)

Mm-hmm.

Daniel (33:52)

But of course that kind of coincided, I started working at Best Buy by that point. So I started coming in contact with people who were like on their phones all the time and actually like looking at stuff. And I even remember when I started getting advertised to for TikTok, like I thought it was on Snapchat. And I saw it and I thought, I don't want anything to do with that. It looks stupid. And ⁓ I didn't use it at all. I still just on Snapchat all the time.

Daniel (34:22)

And totally mis-built, I still don't like using it at all. Like, I don't like things screaming at my face. I don't like my phone yelling at my face at all. have the sound off. I don't like watching videos on my phone. ⁓

Kathryn Holeton (34:34)

Me too! It's not just me!

Daniel (34:36)

Yeah, no, I hate it. I hate TikTok. It's not just because of what it does or what it's about or anything. I don't like watching videos on my phone full stop. Never have, never will. You can't get me to watch it. And ⁓ I watch it for my wife. But other than that, like, that's it.

Kathryn Holeton (34:58)

I realize I should probably market my business more on TikTok, but newsflash, I hate video editing of any kind. It's hard enough for me to make my own social media posts.

Daniel (35:08)

Love video editing and like I've been doing

it since I would I used to have the pinnacle ⁓ Like a thing where you put like plugged in the composite like three ⁓ I put my camcorder into it. Well, I used to make this We had this thing called Albert Croft. It was like it was like a international spy like movie that we made and ⁓ We used my stepdad's boat and we put our we made it we put our super inflatable pool next to it

So that was like the ocean. We filmed a few scenes out there and I would edit it in Windows Movie Maker. I would build these Frankenstein computers out of, my stepdad's a printer, so I build these Frankenstein computers out of all these old PC parts that he had laying in the garage. And that's what me and my cousin would do. We'd just build these Windows 98 machines and put XP on them.

Daniel (36:06)

What other software did we use? We... ⁓ It was the Nero CD burner. We also had like a Nero Wave Editor. ⁓ Which I always thought was really funny that it was called Nero. Like, because the Roman Emperor that burnt down the city. But, and they they burned CDs. But, yeah. Yeah.

Kathryn Holeton (36:28)

⁓ that's great. I see what they did there. At least they had a better name than Nero, right?

Daniel (36:35)

Yeah, no, it was great. I loved using it. yeah, so I would edit audio and I would edit. learned like when I was 10 years old, I'd in here and like editing. We made, it's actually terrible when I say this right now, when Hurricane Katrina happened. We made a song about it and it's like I was the singer for it. And it was like, I think my cousin played guitar and he like, like, I forgot what Tom Petty song it was.

It was like, I forgot what the words were, but then there was another song we made called, like, Way Too Small, and it was about having a small penis or something. And that was how I spent my, like, preteen years. So I love editing audio, I love editing video. ⁓ It sucks doing it on your phone.

Kathryn Holeton (37:27)

I can believe it!

Daniel (37:29)

like and I keep remembering a few years ago Apple is like we're gonna stop selling laptops we're gonna replace them all with iPads and they never ended up doing that they still sell desktops but

Kathryn Holeton (37:43)

I imagine they got backlash from that because everyone was like, we still use laptops, you know that, right?

Daniel (37:49)

Yeah, that was when they came out with the iPad Pro. And I think that might have been when I worked at Best Buy when I was leaving. I think I started working at Sprint by that point. So maybe 2017 is when they announced that, 2017 or 18. They're like, the future is not laptops, it's all iPads. And I was like, the fuck it is. Yeah, like.

Kathryn Holeton (38:06)

I don't know what they were smoking. I will live by my laptop, thank you very much.

Daniel (38:14)

Right, they came out with like all these, you know, really intensive apps for the iPad and like they came out with that folio that was also a, you know, a tactile keypad. No, actually it wasn't tactile at all. It was like you couldn't press any of the keys but when you tapped on the pleather folio, would type. So you could type on this but it was still only a touchscreen, no mouse action and they came out with the pencil, the Apple Pencil.

And they're like, this will replace laptops. And I got one and I was like, this sucks, I'm gonna use my laptop. Which a lot of people like using those and I'm not gonna dog the people who like using them and people who use Procreate, they'll be like, they create some really good drawings and some amazing art is created on them and I'm not at all like ripping on digital art because it takes you just as much skill.

to do that kind of stuff. But at the same time...

Some of the ideas that come out of Silicon Valley and they think are just like, we're revolutionizing. It's a marketing thing, they're lying. It's like they're just really trying to get you to buy their stuff. we'll just, you should really just wait and see and always come at their tech with a note.

Kathryn Holeton (39:29)

Mm-hmm.

Of course, me and Apple have a huge agreement to disagree. Funny story, ⁓ I've discovered this disagreement when I was in high school taking a digital arts class. The entire room was full of Apple computers. By the end of the first month of the course, none of them worked, because every time I would sit down at one and start manipulating Photoshop, the computer would crash.

Daniel (39:42)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kathryn Holeton (40:00)

It got so bad where the teacher would come over and look over my shoulder as I was working and the computer would just crash randomly. He'd be like, you didn't do anything! He's like, I know, right? They had to replace the computers at 30 to 40 computers in this room at least three times over the course of that semester in high school.

Daniel (40:01)

Yeah.

Yeah, we had a Mac lab. It was what we called ours. And it was they just got it like we got it in 2011. I have one of those like IMAX now. I like somebody was throwing it away like and so I got it and I can't even install the newest version of like their stuff on it like but like it's like technically still should be a good computer like it's like it still has 32 gigs of RAM. It has like a you know some really good Intel processor like it should be fine but they're like no it's a good computer anymore.

Daniel (40:49)

shouldn't use it and like but yeah but back when like in 2011 it'd be crashing on random shit and it's like I thought this was like the best of the best like what is going on and I built this this shitty like gaming PC in 2018 it was a budget build I bought an open box graphics card so that was a year out of date and I've had it for almost eight years now and like

Kathryn Holeton (40:59)

Pfft.

Daniel (41:15)

The only upgrade I'm gonna have to make to it is buy some stupid chip so I can get Windows 11. Which I put off buying because it was gonna be an $80 upgrade but now it's gonna be a $120 upgrade because of frickin inflation. I know but I was like I don't need it. Now I've literally got like three weeks to fucking buy this chip before they stop supporting Windows 10.

Kathryn Holeton (41:21)

Well, maybe I shouldn't have put it off in the first place.

Well, get on it and buy that chip already! Your chip will weigh at it! Ha ha ha.

Daniel (41:44)

I guess, yeah. Yeah, just chipping away at it. But yeah, it still runs great and I can't upgrade a Mac. That's what sucks. You literally just have to buy a new one every time.

Kathryn Holeton (42:04)

I don't know the first thing on how to run a Mac. was I work as a tutor and I was working with someone and they wanted to only use Apple computers and was like, bro, I use Dell. I use Dell for a reason. If I touch this computer, it's going to die. I don't know how to navigate on this thing. I don't know how to make it work. He didn't know it either. I could rant about him for a while, but.

Daniel (42:08)

They're not that different. Yeah

Kathryn Holeton (42:33)

I won't, but who?

Daniel (42:34)

I mean honestly, the best way to survive in the world is to be a generalist.

Kathryn Holeton (42:39)

Am a Dell user or nothing

Daniel (42:42)

Oh yeah, the best computer I ever had was a Dell Studio 17 that I bought in about 2010 and it had this like, my lights do weird things, at sunset. I messed up the routine. It goes to daylight right before it goes to blue. it was Dell Studio 17 on the shell. It had a robot.

Kathryn Holeton (43:03)

Mm.

Daniel (43:10)

that was like rebelling and unplugging itself from the wall or something. And it was really cool. But it 17 because it had 17 inch screen. I bought it for graphic design. so the specs were great at the time. It had like four gigs of RAM and it had like the first i5 or the first i7 that came out. so like of that, you know, I think the i series or whatever it's called, the 9000 series.

It's a, you those are standard Intel processors, but it was like, I think they were just called core duos before that. So I think maybe the I series, those are quad core, but I was like, you know, running, I was like, let's see how many Adobe programs we can use all at once. And I'm just, you know, open up like here's the Illustrator Photoshop, like InDesign, like all this stuff, just open, open, open, and just keeping it running. And it was.

Like, it was great. used it, I used that for eight years. Like, it was cracked. I remember dropping it, like it was like off a hinge on one side and somebody, like an ex-girlfriend, she spilled beer all over the keyboard. Like, it was a good computer. It the best computer I ever had. I loved it.

Kathryn Holeton (44:11)

Well. I feel that. When I graduated sixth grade, our elementary school actually awarded us with Dell laptops. I mean, these laptops still had Word downloaded on it.

Daniel (44:41)

Yeah, that's, I don't know why they don't, I know why they don't do that, but come on.

Kathryn Holeton (44:45)

It's annoying, but anyway, that thing got me all the way up until my first semester of college and today it still works. However, I cannot close the lid anymore and no one is around to fix it because the plastic ⁓ backing covering is peeling away from the screen. So it's currently duct taped and clamps together, so I can't close it. It can never be a true traveling laptop anymore.

Daniel (44:50)

That's what I ended up having with mine. 2016, I just started setting it up as a desktop wherever I went. I recorded my own version of a Bob Ross video where I did a wet on wet oil painting. And I recorded it Facebook Live back when, like that, and Periscope. And those were the live.

The services that they had and it was a lot of fun but the Wi-Fi was really terrible on it the Wi-Fi chip I think it was still like either like a B or G where now we have AC so people like oh this is awesome but I really you just keep breaking up so that was a little bit of a fail and then actually this year Meta said that they were

Kathryn Holeton (46:03)

Yeah

Daniel (46:12)

going to be deleting all that old stuff so I had to go like and download it and yeah gave it a salute goodbye but yeah

Daniel (46:31)

So, I guess that's really like most all I have for you that kind of we cover the three topics that we ended up talking about computers and is there anything else you want to add before we go?

Kathryn Holeton (46:45)

for anyone watching, if you do want to work with me, you can find me on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Threads. I am most active on Threads and LinkedIn. And I currently have a free thing where you can schedule a free 30 minute call with me to discuss ⁓ a messaging need. So if you need help defining your message to better ⁓ reach your audience.

I can help you with that.

Daniel (47:18)

Well, awesome. again, musicians, also artists, here's good Catherine Holton, brand designer, and go find your character. So yeah, let's get eccentric. It was a pleasure to talk to you. I really appreciate you coming on the show.

Kathryn Holeton (47:31)

Let's get adventuring! Thanks for having me.

Daniel (47:40)

course and we'll be talking to you again soon. Alright, bye!